Interview: Snyder and Capullo Reawaken The BATMAN

Batman #47 featured a shocking ending that put every comic fan on their toes, but Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo are here to say: the shocks don’t stop there. With next Wednesday’s issue #48 approaching quickly, the dynamic duo of DC Comics sat down again with Comicosity to share insight into Batman’s relationship with the Joker, Mister Bloom’s crescendo, and the return of Bruce Wayne to the man we know and love.

BM_47_22_566a1ac9dc6066.49058196Matt Santori: Leading into the conversation we’re about to see on that bench in Batman #48, I’d like to get a broader sense from both of you: how does the Batman/Joker relationship really work for you?

Scott Snyder: I think every iteration of the Joker and his relationship with the Batman is intimate for the writer/artist team that’s doing it. For us, they’ve been locked into this eternal question since the beginning of our run. In a post-9/11 world, Batman is largely about teaching people to be brave and letting them know “you matter.” Whereas, when I was growing up, he was more about scaring bad guys back into the shadows and telling people “we can take back the city.” And that was really important in that moment.

And the Joker is the reverse. He says, “I am the shooter that comes in on a Tuesday. I am the bomb that goes off or the plane that crashes.” He is your worst fears about meaning nothing, because none of it means anything. So, they’re locked into this eternal dialogue, usually very violently, that has to do with things that I wrestle with personally. What do you do with your life? Does it matter? Does it mean anything?

As Greg and I conceived this scene, before we even began the arc, we thought about how they’re on reverse sides of the mirror. Bruce is at a point where he says, as a normal human being, “If my life doesn’t matter, if everything I’ve built needs to go away and I don’t know how to do that (and even if I could, to become what I was before again), what was the point of it?”

And the Joker is the one who gives him the answer that Batman usually does, which is, “You were here. It matters because you did what you could. You were a hero in the time that you had.” Oddly, it almost makes it OK to come back, to become what he was before. So, this was one of the scenes that I felt was about forgiveness. It’s kind of a wonderful opportunity to write them as inverses of what they normally are, and to say goodbye to that character for awhile.

Greg Capullo: I think it was cool to draw the Joker as a normal guy, and as a sympathetic character. I actually feel bad for him on that bench, with his contemplations. He’s reaching out and trying to help Bruce. So, to draw him in that capacity is one of the joys of it. Portraying him as gentle and sympathetic? I mean, who thinks of the Joker that way? Scott Snyder does. And that’s a real pleasure in what we’re doing.

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MSG: So, we’re seeing this transformation happening, beginning with last issue’s scene between Bruce and Duke, and continuing in #48. It’s a very visual transformation, almost an inverse of what’s happening as Gordon is being broken down. Can you talk about how you built that progression in the book?

GC: Everything starts with Scott’s writing. But apart from that, it happens so instinctively. I read the script and a movie rolls in my head. I just follow my instincts of how to portray that. I don’t know what the magical answer is other than I’m inspired by what Scott writes and it all unfolds in a natural way without any planning. It just happens organically.

SS: Greg adds so much story-wise. I know you’re going about it instinctively, but there are so many layers you’re adding, visual things that you’re adding. The moth aspect was all Greg’s idea. And the physicality of Bruce — you can feel by the end of issue #48 that he’s Batman. He wants what he wants.

BM_Cv49On the other hand, Gordon is but a sliver of Batman. He’s diminished, and you can feel he’s at the end of his humanity. In the next issue, he’s really dying. That’s it. he has nothing left to give. It’s really like the life force is moving from one to the other. And that comes from Greg’s familiarity with these characters.

GC: You know, with things like the moths, that just happens organically. It’s always based on the story that I read. What I’m trying to do is stick to the guts of a writer’s story, and ask where does it really want to go? And I try to pick a direction that makes it even tastier or visually exciting. It happens naturally as I’m going through the pages.

I’m just telling Scott’s story organically, in what seems like the right way to me.

MSG: Well, “organic” is really the right word here, particularly in how Mister Bloom is changing right in front of us, quite physically. How did that transformation come about for you?

GC: Here’s where the fun comes for me. [laughs] Everybody loves monsters, and as a kid, I had a long run on Spawn. So, whenever Scott talks to me about stuff like this, it’s like getting my old, comfortable, somewhat smelly slippers on that I wear around the house. Vines like tentacles popping out of his back? I’m like, yes yes yes. More of this!

It really brings me back to why comics are fun. I do like drawing character stuff a lot and that emotional content, but this is the kind of stuff that a little kid is going to want to buy a comic. All this super crazy stuff.

MSG: Mister Bloom’s monologue in the upcoming issue really puts a point on his perspective too.

SS: Yeah. For me, it’s interesting to do this with the President’s State of the Union earlier this week and the election cycle running right now. Coming off the news cycle we’ve had this year having to do with our failings nationally, I wanted to do a story that — if Greg was going to take a break — would put a cap on our run. Something that had to do with why Batman matters. Not to Gotham or to comic fans or to me as a writer, because I’ve already explored all of that stuff. But to the world.

9WRYCMsWhat does this fictional character mean for the real world if he does nothing — both in that real world and in his city with problems that are generating the most terrifying incidents? What does he mean? Bloom is that exact argument. He says that this city — in fact, our country — is engaged in this feudal experiment. We don’t get along. We don’t like each other. You want your own. You want what’s good for you. Arm yourself and get it. And to him, that’s what Batman is about, because before Gordon, he took the law into his own hands.

And I think, if you misread Batman, that’s what he can stand for. Bloom is this ultimate villain of our entire run. He’s saying that in the real world, Batman is this terrible thing, if anything.

But what he stands for, in my opinion, is the best of us. But he’s a ghost, and it’s something that Gordon says in #50: He doesn’t exist. Batman isn’t real. He stands on a roof with me and I can feel that whoever is under that cowl died a long time ago. He’s a ghost of what we let happen if we’re not careful.

And in that way, he comes back to haunt us. He tells us we can all be a better person. He returns to fight this imaginary, terrible monster, this ridiculous thing, to make you feel like you can take an inch step toward standing up to police brutality or homophobia or xenophobia. That no matter who you are or what you believe, that you can get along and figure out a solution.

That’s really what Bloom is about to me. I hope it comes across, because it’s the craziest arc we’ve ever done. On the one hand, #50 is literally quasars and fifty foot monsters and all of that stuff. And going back to the stuff that we’ve explored with Jim and what Bloom says about the system, I hope it’s clear that it’s the arc that matters more than any other in terms of a thesis on Batman.

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MSG: One last question. We see Duke Thomas approaching a really important moment to come, and this week, we saw him undergo a pretty significant change of perspective in Robin War #2. Tell me what you guys have next in mind for Duke.

SS: Duke is a huge part of everything moving forward. His story crescendos in issue #50, the finale of “Superheavy,” and for everything I have planned after that, he’s quintessential to it — and to other stuff in the Bat-world that I can’t talk about. He’s a character who exemplifies a different idea about Robin, essentially that Robin doesn’t need Batman. Robin is simply someone inspired by Batman to do something with his life, to make a difference in the world. And that’s new and exciting.

Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo’s Batman #48 arrives in comic shops and online next Wednesday, January 20, 2016, from DC Comics.

 

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